Episode 49: Most Meetings Shouldn't Happen with Evan Unger
On this episode of Quality Time with MoreSteam, Evan Unger joins the show. Evan is the Managing Partner at Schwartz + Associates. He's spent over 30 years helping organizations work together. Evan's held leadership roles at Merck and CommonSpirit Health. One time, he even facilitated the meeting where his own position got eliminated. It's exactly as awkward and fascinating as it sounds.
Here's Evan's brutal assessment: most meetings are 30 to 40 percent effective. Maybe. That's a staggering waste. Evan has spent decades figuring out why it happens and how to fix it. He shares a dead simple technique for virtual meetings. It stops the same three people from dominating every conversation. He also explains how to handle the "hippo effect." That's when the highest paid person's opinion shuts down everyone else in the room. This includes the people who actually know what's going on.
The conversation covers Evan's career from the GE Workout days to his pandemic pivot. After losing all his work in 2020, Evan spent weeks depressed on his couch. His wife told him to get it together. What happened next involved meditation, mural boards, and a complete business transformation. You'll also hear how Evan signed up for a ten-day silent meditation retreat and what he learned there. Plus, why facilitators create meetings that shouldn't exist and what manila envelopes have to do with continuous improvement.
What's the plane flight metaphor for running a kaizen event? Why do leaders get promoted for expertise but fail at collaboration? How do you hold space for the quiet people when the VP is in the room? Find out in this episode. And yes, you'll probably laugh a few times, too.
In this episode, you will hear about:
2:28 - Meet Evan Unger
4:46 - A playoff football cliffhanger!
6:01 - Transformation in big, complex organizations
7:19 - When Evan facilitated his own departure
9:18 - Facilitation as a style of leadership
11:35 - Pivoting from in-person to online
15:59 - Using chat to make online meetings better
18:12 - HIPPO: The Highest Paid Person’s Opinion
19:54 - Dealing with the “HIPPO Effect”
22:28 - Humility in leadership
25:13 - Collaboration before everybody was online
28:04 - Meeting mistakes
29:22 - “So many meetings should not be allowed to happen.”
29:53 - A Kaizen event is like a plane flight
32:09 - Universal leadership skills
34:19 - How psychology and economics factor into Evan’s work
37:23 - Evan’s history with meditation
40:46 - Meditation and Evan’s approach to leadership
42:42 - Closing thoughts and Evan’s program
Additional Resources:
Evan Unger at Schwartz + Associates
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The box score of the NFL Playoff Game mentioned in this episode
Top 10 Lessons Learned from Process Improvement Leadership
The Power of Shutting Up and Listening: A Few Words of Timeless Advice
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Host • MoreSteam
Dan Swartwout is the host of Quality Time with MoreSteam. A lifelong Central Ohio resident, Dan is a double Buckeye. He earned both a BA and a law degree from The Ohio State University. Before joining MoreSteam, Dan had a long career as a host, comedian, and master of ceremonies. For 17 years, Dan was the studio audience host for the Ohio Lottery game show Cash Explosion. Dan was also the host of CBuzz, which was a collaboration between the Columbus Chamber of Commerce, WWCD 92.9, and the Columbus Dispatch. On CBuzz, Dan interviewed some of the most prominent entrepreneurs in Central Ohio. From 2002-2020, Dan toured the country as a standup comedian. Tracks from his comedy CD have been played over 5,000 times on Sirius/XM satellite radio. Now, Dan brings his experience and enthusiasm to Quality Time with MoreSteam -- it's business and fun, together.
Managing Partner • Schwartz and Associates
Evan Unger has 25 years’ experience driving organizational change initiatives, both as an executive in the pharmaceutical and healthcare industries and as an external consultant. Since 1988 he has consulted with clients in small organizations, school systems and in Fortune 100 companies domestically and across Europe, the Pacific Rim and South America.
He served in several key leadership positions for Merck, a global pharmaceutical manufacturer, and as Vice President of Leadership, Change & Development for Centura Health, Colorado’s largest healthcare provider. He has trained thousands of people in the art of collaborative leadership, and specializes in building teams, change management and complex meeting facilitation. Evan received his BS in Psychology and Economics from Duke University and MBA from the University of Michigan. He recharges once a year with a ten-day, silent meditation retreat. He currently resides in Denver, Colorado.
(Bio and picture from https://www.terischwartzassociates.com/our-team/evan-unger/)
